Francois Vialatte is a researcher at Brain Science Institute RIKEN. He works on deciphering brain signals for creating better Brain-Computer interfaces and tools that can diagnose Alzheimer’s at early stages. Learn more about his research.
On this interview BCI researcher Francois Vialatte answers some unpleasant questions surrounding BCI research, such as does BCI really has its future? Also we discuss current problems with publicity of science, potential hypnotic effects of BCI and possibility of entering altered state of mind while playing BCI games.
When and why did you become interested in BCI?
When I was a young Master’s degree student, I had an intuition that machine learning methods could be applied to extract information from brain signals. I had not read anything related to BCI, but was already developing my own theory. Interestingly, I discussed my idea with my roommate, who believed that my theories were some kind of fringe science, or science-fiction fantasy. Regarding dates, it would be 2002… Later on, I had the chance to join a lab where BCI is one of the main research topic.
There is an opinion that hype created by media around BCI is a big bubble which is about to blow, and BCI cannot really compete with its alternatives in any application. Anyone who invests in BCI will lose his money. What is your opinion about this?
There is a part of truth in this affirmation. The media tend to present a distorted picture of what BCI systems can do. This being said, there are certainly numerous applications where BCI will become profitable, with feasible industrial applications.
For example?
Clinical applications for paralyzed patients (especially with ALS) are the most obvious applications. Video games will most probably be a rich field to explore. I think also that neurometrics are viable applications. Somehow, what can be said about BCI is that the technology recently moved from the basic research to the applied research, so it is still far from being optimal.
But what about existing interfaces for disabled persons based on eye-tracking? Can they compete with BCI?
Nice question. Why should eye-tracking be opposed to BCI? Both technologies can be integrated (in this case we generally speak about BMI, or Brain Machine Interface). My opinion is that BCI will be integrated in the future technologies (such as combined eye-tracking/BCI systems)
But can eye-tracking become cheaper and more easy-to-use alternative to BCI?
If you really want to put the two technologies in competition, then there has to be a looser. The more “easy to use” is not the winner, but the one with the higher bit rate transfer. On this aspect, no one knows what the future will be. And there is no guarantee that BCI or eye-tracking would win or loose. This is why I would suggest industrial applications to be based on both (and also on other physiological measurements, such as ECG, etc… when possible).
What are main obstacles that prevent BCI to become widely used?
As I mentioned above, BCI recently moved from the basic research to the applied research. The last step, the development of industrial prototypes, is not completed (or only in the beginning). Some applications could already be developed, but I suppose that companies are waiting until an optimal level of research is reached. Several questions remain opened, many elements are still untested.
What is the coolest thing about BCI?
This technology is one of the most impressive application of the recent progresses in neuroscience. BCI is cool because it is nearly a science-fiction technology. This is probably the reason why it became so fashionable in the media. But to me, BCI is interesting because it let me dream of what could be done at the next step (when we will hopefully have access to more precise measurement technologies, or more accurate mathematical tools).
And something about science publicity… When I just started to using this science papers, I always wondered where is the source code section. Usually only results and description are published, for code, this is not common. What are you opinion?
I agree, it is not common to see it published, and it would be a good habit. This is a problem similar to data withholding in science. Data and code are intellectual properties, the scientist is not always the owner of these elements, and not always encouraged (or even allowed) to share them. Somehow, this is detrimental for developing countries (with less fundings, their scientists have access to less data or code than the developed countries). In other words, modern science is not international, and not public. Only its results are made public. A few journals have, exceptionally, policies asking the authors to submit their data and code together with the paper.
For check?… So the situation is that research groups just want to keep their secret to themselves?
Yes. If you keep your data and your code, then you have some kind of “intellectual trust”. This way you can keep control of your field, and avoid competition.
This not good (should be corrected)…
Yes, I agree, it should be corrected. But it needs some institutional will to move it towards the good direction: research is not directed by scientist, but by administrative policy makers, who are not totally aware of all the aspects of the problem.
Well if even Microsoft finally had to make moves towards opensource, I think for science we won’t wait for too long. But it will require some competitive pressure from independent researchers… otherwise there will be no need for institutions to change existing system.
Note that I understand that the problem is not the same in industry, but there is a hope. A company has to make money on short term, this is obvious, and if they share their code and their data (if they are the only one doing so), it is like shooting in their own foot. But for science, there is hope. If the new generation of young scientists are willing to make these changes, they can spread the idea. Furthermore, they will be the scientific leaders of tomorrow.
Let’s talk about your research in signal synchrony. It is not focused on BCI specifically but BCI improvement is one of its possible applications. But was BCI improvement the main idea from which this study started?
Well, the idea is somehow “bidirectional” improve BCI on one hand, get a better understanding of synchrony on the other hand. Synchrony should increase the reliability of BCI signal processing tasks.
Concerning other applications, I am also working on Alzheimer’s disease. In this context, we use measures of synchrony to investigate the early stages of the disease. For Alzheimer, the purpose is two-fold: obtain a better understanding of the disease, and possibly develop methods to help the diagnostic of the disease before its onset (a task also termed as early detection). Potentially, these measures have many applications. Generally speaking, if brain signal synchrony is a relevant feature for the brain, any technology involving the brain could exploit similar techniques (especially if higher cognition is involved).
So how is synchrony helpful for BCI?
Synchrony provides us with a higher level feature. Synchrony and other methods could be compared metaphorically to the use of a microscope vs. direct observation.
With synchrony more like observation – i.e. it helps us to see the forest for the trees.
Yes, synchrony gives a bigger picture. For my own research, I have to solve the problem of integrating the time, frequency, and space dimensions of EEG (space = electrodes) Fourier measures are electrode-specific, they do not indicate relationships between different brain areas. Other recent measures could be compared with synchrony, like for instance measures of information flow.
Ok, could you tell something about application of synchrony to SSVEP-based BCI?
My preferred BCI systems are the P300 and SSVEP based systems. The reason is that with this system, the subjects do not need lengthy and tiring periods of training. SSVEP produces a stable signal, with a few number of commands it can be a good choice for BCI.
But it is also quite annoying, for how long can you use SSVEP without getting your eyes tired?
It depends on two elements: what paradigm is used, and which frequencies are used. Low frequency is more tiring than high frequencies. For instance one of my subject consistently felt asleep with low frequency “hypnotic” stimuli.
Concerning the paradigm, it is much easier to concentrate on a game than on a screen with numbers. Several studies have shown that BCI systems with a friendly feedback, and especially in a game environment, are more efficient (including a study from our lab using a car driving game).
I heard that 7Hz-frequency stimulation can make person frightened to death. Is it what low-frequency SSVEP can do?
Frightened to death? This looks like an urban legend! Low frequency stimulation is extremely boring and if the fixation is too long, a little hypnotic (it sometimes gives me the feeling of having an empty mind), but I was never scared by these stimuli.
There is however another real danger, which is the risk of photogenic epilepsy. This risk is seldom mentioned in studies about SSVEP, despite being well known. The most famous case of epileptic seizures associated with repetitive flashes of lights was documented after a “pokemon” animation was aired on a Japanese channel. Radford and Bartholomew estimated that 12,000 children suffered from symptoms and/or illness due to this TV show (the symptoms included photogenic seizures, but also photogenic migraines).
Can it be that there was no epilepsy before, but after it was induced, symptoms arose and affected later life?
No, those who had symptoms had already a sensibility (the show did not create the disease), but they did not know. They did suffer from epileptic seizures though. My point is that subjects who undergo experiments with SSVEP-based BCI should be controlled for possible photo-sensibility. Without such control, there is a risk that the subject might have a seizure during the experiment. If they are prone to photosensitive epilepsy, SSVEP-BCI would be dangerous for them, if they are not, then this type of BCI is safe (photo sensitive epilepsy cannot be, as far as I know, induced in healthy subjects). Here is a link about photosensitive epilepsy.
Ok, so it is safe except some special conditions like epilepsy. Just searched Google if low-frequency can cause something bad in healthy persons, and it turned to be “Brown Note” urban legend - you were right.
Yes. Furthermore, concerning repetitive pattern stimuli like SSVEP, you should know that we are constantly exposed to similar stimuli. Computer screens flicker at about 60 Hz, neon lights also flicker, we are surrounded by such stimuli, and as far as I know no one even tried to measure the long term effect of these stimuli.
And, there are such devices sold around – “Mind Machines”: “A mind machine uses pulsing rhythmic sound and/or flashing light to alter the brainwave frequency of the user. Mind machines are said to induce deep states of relaxation, concentration and in some cases altered states of consciousness, that have been compared to those obtained from meditation and shamanic exploration.” Considering that SSVEP uses the same technique – i.e. rhythmic flashes – will we have shamanic experience each time we use it?
I am not aware of any serious publication about this kind of toys. If it did really induce an altered state of consciousness, it should be possible to measure a long term effect (which was not shown). Indeed, SSVEP can have some effect on cognitive functions.
You mentioned there was a hypnotic effect, but very little.
Yes, I did mention this in one of my publications. Synchrony is strongly altered during SSVEP stimulation. I do not rule out the possibility to induce some effect using SSVEP. For instance, one study showed an enhancement of working memory in elders after a 10 Hz stimulation. I did observe the hypnotic effect. But to do so, we need to gather several conditions:
strong light
long stimuli duration (> 30 sec)
large stimuli
Effects might also depend on the stimulus frequencies and colors. I am not aware of any study in BCI using these parameters. So, in other words, you will not have a shamanic experience with an SSVEP-BCI. But the possible effects of SSVEP on higher cognitive function seem intriguing, and I would be curious to read any serious investigation about this topic (I might do one if I have time).
So mind machines might have a point despite no serious publication/effect observed yet.
Yes, my concern is to now what is the real effect (especially long term effect) of this kind of toy to know.
we, erm, touched on this dude yesterday, but seriously, yo, this dude is bananas.
was he a dj? just a big music fan?slightly creepy?
does what he says, plays some slept on gizznems from back in the dilznays.but so, so much more.he edits a dope video to match, and kicks a little k(nowledge), and gets the fuck outta there…
interviews too, check him interviewing/asskissing the dude from k.c and the sunshine band…more gas than exxon.
he goes deep like freddie west on this one!
the inspiration for that dodgy old party cut that ice t did, with everlast..anyways,
ill cover version of the excorcist.go, music mike.3.55 for the drums.
And….the guy is a radio buff, but to the extreme.
his other channel is all airchecks, jingles, and test broadcasts from throughout the states.depth/
Frankly none of your interview bloopers have quite matched up to Neal from Crawley’s stump-shaking cringerama as featured in Episode 105, but we’re still very pleased you’ve shared with us your solecisms: check them outHERE, and here are a few more that came into our inbox. Tanya from Twickenham recounts an awkward university interview:
I had to sit on what looked like a kitchen chair in the middle of a massive room. There were two interviewers, a man and a woman – the man was sitting on the far right side of the room on a very high chair like a barstool and the woman was sitting on a very low sofa on the far left side of the room.
I felt totally ridiculous looking from one to the other from my isolated position in the middle of the room, and I could hardly hear what the woman was asking me as she was so far away. The man picked his nose throughout the whole thing.
When I left, I tripped over the rug and crashed into the door. They didn’t offer me a place.
Another university interview Fail comes from Alex from Nottingham:
I had an interview to study medicine at UEA. I took the train down and there was a death on the track ahead; I never got the details but we got an announcement that the police had made it into a crime scene as we rushed to the coach.
Later on in my interview the interviewer asked if I had any trouble getting there and I replied, “Oh not much, I came down on the train but there was a death on the track ahead.” There was an awkward pause and so I carried on, “…Which almost made me late.” I then realised this was the kind of callous thing never to say to an interviewer whose primary purpose was to analyse how caring and compassionate I was. Unsurprisingly, I did not get in.
This one from Alasdair from Austria reads more like an early-90s sitcom plot:
In 1991 as students, a friend and I went to an interview for a placement year in Wiltshire from Leicester, and it was the worst time ever. I did the normal thing and was up early and dressed smart etc., then dropped around to my friend’s house to find he had pulled the night before and was asleep with her and hungover. After an impolite and confusing rush to get him awake and help him get his clothes and car keys etc. and somehow explain to the lady that we had to go, we piled into his car and drove off.
About an hour later, after occasionally helping him stay on the road by “assisting” him with the steering wheel, we ran out of petrol. I had to walk sweating up a hill with a petrol can and luckily found a farmer’s house and persuaded the farmer’s wife to drive me to a petrol station and get petrol. At least it was a respite from the stale alcohol fumes from my friend’s mouth. He was of course asleep when I got back to the car.
We finally arrived in the small town almost late, and my friend was not yet in his suit. We ended up stopping at a pub to change, but since it was before opening hours it was closed and he had to get changed in a little plastic kiddy tree-house. As you can imagine we arrived thoroughly rattled, I was physically shaking from fried nerves and we hadn’t eaten.
In the end I got offered a job. My friend was still hungover of course and didn’t.
Any more for any more? No need to be shy, you’re among friends here. Share with us, that we might all learn from your mistakes laugh at your misfortune.
w 2 pics
Go See Jimmy!
When the Rolling Stones got in hot water with Myrtle Beach’s finest, it was Jimmy Lathan who came to their rescue
Horry County native Jimmy Lathan doesn’t consider his job a job. It’s too much fun. He’s the live production engineer for Sea-Cruz, one of the most sought-after Carolina beach music groups in Myrtle Beach, S.C. He has a blast, even getting involved with some of the skits and routines.
“I’ve known Dino [Dino Fair, Sea-Cruz keyboard player and vocalist] for some 40 years … I met him when I was working for Burroughs & Chapin … Myrtle Beach Farms back then … and he was with the Shakers and they were playing the Pavilion at the Magic Attic, back when it was still the Pavilion Ballroom & Dance Hall.
Jimmy was the go to guy for the Pavilion for about 30 years. You needed something, you went to Jimmy. A contractor, handyman, electrician, diver, golfer, music lover and more – officially, he was general services manager at Myrtle Beach’s famous Pavilion from 1966 to 1997, and he’s got some stories to tell.
“I booked the entertainment for the Pavilion, the national acts that came in and played upstairs plus all the free acts that we put out on the beach.
“The Flying Wallendins used to perform on the beach, at 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. Their shows lasted anywhere from 12 to 20 minutes.”
Jimmy’s stories tend to remind him of other stories, which is what happened here.
“Do you know that the beach here used to be much, much deeper? Back in the fifties, Slim Mims [musician/comedian who also owned Uncle Ugly’s Record Shop in Florence, S.C.] used to emcee a country night at the Pavilion. He would fly his own plane from Nashville to Myrtle Beach and land right there on the beach … what is now the horseshoe at Main Street in North Myrtle Beach. The beach was so wide, nobody cared. Mr. Husted used to go pick him up and at the end of the night, he’d bring him back to his plane.”
According to Jimmy, Husted was originally a traveling carny. When the Pavilion first opened, he used to bring his rides for the summer and then move on to the next gig. The company wanted to keep them longer, so they bought them and Husted came on as general manager.
While Edward Burroughs was alive, Jimmy had a standing weekly golf date with him. “In the early 70s, every Wednesday at 1 p.m. – and I don’t mean 12:59 or 1:01– I mean I p.m. – Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Husted, the general manager for Myrtlewood Golf Course and I would play. Every Wednesday. It was another part of my job.”
Jimmy also coordinated all the Sun Fun activities with the Pavilion. “I loved meeting all these people … the dignitaries … the inductees. Mickey Spillane was inducted into the Sun Fun Hall of Fame in 1988 along with Alabama and the Thunderbirds. Mickey was all dressed up on the red carpet; thousands of people were wanting his autograph. An hour later, I noticed him on the beach in his shorts and a Miller shirt and not a soul knew who he was. ‘I like it this way,’ he told me. I like that guy!
“I loved the free acts, too. There were monster trucks, wrestlers. Andre the Giant used to work the Pavilion. Man, that guy was so big he could drop a silver dollar through his ring.
“The Ballroom held some 3,000 people. The dance floor was made out of South American Maple, milled to perfection, tongue in groove. It was beautiful.
“Back in the 60s, late 60s, maybe ‘66 or ‘67 or ‘68, I was running the free bands, working the side doors. There was no AC, no fan. But it was a great time.
“The music then … we didn’t call it beach music. It was Motown. I was fortunate enough to see that era of entertainment. The Drifters, the Platters, Supremes, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, the Tams – with Joe Pope, The Temptations – with David Ruffin, Sam & Dave, Little Anthony and the Imperials. In fact, when Anthony was in town for the Carolina Beach Music Awards last year, he told me he remembered me working the side door.
“You know, we didn’t realize that the music being played at the Pavilion was dictating what was being played east of Mississippi. We didn’t even know.”
“We used to have the best regional groups come through. We’d have General Johnson and Jackie Gore on the boardwalk.
You never knew who was going to stop by the Pavilion and either sit in or just hang out.
“In the 70s, there was a southern rock band I liked a lot – Eastern Seaboard. They had a banjo player. He used to play ‘Rocky Top’ for me all the time. They knew I liked it. Well, one day, they started playing it, I looked up and there’s Alabama and Charlie Daniels up on stage with Eastern Seaboard … playing Rocky Top. I just loved it.
“I met some great people. One night, in 1974, I was back in my office, and one of my staff came back and said, ‘This guy out front just wants to come in and listen to the music. So I went out front, said hello and let him through. Later on, he stopped by the office, poked his head in and said in his English accent, “I just wanted to thank you for letting me come and see your bloody pub.’
“At that point, I had to say to him, ‘I don’t know if you’re him, but you look like someone I saw in concert five years ago.’
“And he said, ‘Oh, you were at Woodstock. I’m Pete Townshend.”
It turns out Pete Townhend was into the teachings of Indian mystic and spiritual leader Meher Baba, and came to Myrtle Beach on occasion to visit the Meher Spiritual Center, a retreat which, ironically, had been established in the forties by Elizabeth Chapin Patterson, daughter of Simeon B. Chapin, one of the original developers of Myrtle Beach. (Ah, synchronicity)
Years later, in Greensboro, N.C. at a Van Halen after party, Jimmy would run into Townshend again, and this time the Brit introduced him to another buddy, Roger Daltry.
“We had the Stones at the Pavilion, too,” Jimmy tells me.
“In 1978, they were playing the Convention Center. Well, it seems that Keith Richards got in a little trouble with the local police. They wanted to put him in jail. I got involved and said, ‘Let’s not put him in jail; let’s make them do another show. So the police agreed and the Rolling Stones came down to the Pavilion and did one song: “Jumpin’ Jack Flash.”
Jimmy Lathan had a lot of other special nights at the Pavilion, too.
“Some nights were just magic. Mother’s Finest put on one of the most dazzling, fast-moving shows I’ve ever seen. In the 70s, Eastern Seaboard was one of my favorites. Then Sugar Creek came along in the 80s. What a great band.
“Harry Deal and the Galaxies used to play the Pavilion. You know he still owns a chicken farm in Taylorsville, N.C. and still has a group.
“Steve Perry from Journey used to come by. Gerry Rafferty sat in once.
“I loved the music, but it was more. “We had some pretty weird people, too: the fattest twins in the world, Billy and Bobby McGuire. Police used to have to stop traffic to give them time to cross the street.
“And there was this sword swallower. One night I hear Eastern Seaboard playing. Well, Vernon Dick, the lead singer, had met the sword swallower drinking beer and had him on stage. Too funny.
Along the way, Jimmy has put together one of the most comprehensive Pavilion memorabilia collections around.
“I have a parchment I’m going to donate to the Horry County Museum. It’s dated 1801, signed by the governor and it’s a death warrant.
“I’ve been collecting stuff forever. I have a 1929 Horry County dog tag, a Sloppy Joe’s free bingo token, bath house tickets from 1948, posters of lots of the acts and events.”
Jimmy has amusement ride tickets at every denomination ever produced for the Pavilion rides: ten cents, which were used during the 50s; 15 cents, from the 60s; 20 cent tickets; 25 cent tickets; and the new tickets: 60 cents, 75 cents, 90 cents and the most recent one-dollar tickets.
“I also bought the last five tickets ever purchased at the Pavilion in 2006,” he said. “I gave three of them away and I’ve kept the last two… the last two tickets.
About two hours into the interview with Jimmy Lathan, it crossed my mind that he should write a book.
“Well, I am working on a book,” he says, “with Freakin’ Deacon.”
Gary “Freakin’ Deacon” Dawson is a longtime Myrtle Beach deejay. These days you can hear him on QROCK. Back then, he was in the WKCQ booth at the Pavilion.
Until they finish what is sure to be one of the most colorful, interesting books written about the Pavilion and Myrtle Beach, look for Jimmy whenever Sea-Cruz is in town and get him to tell you a couple of his stories. He’s the man!
This was originally published at http://darielb.wordpress.com. Author Dariel Bendin can be contacted on the Internet on MySpace (MySpace.com/culturejunkie); Facebook and Twitter (Twitter.com/darielb). Read Beach Newz online at MyrtleBeachAlternatives.com/beach-newz.
cutlines:
Jimmy Lathan shown with one of the posters from his comprehensive collection of Pavilion memorabilia.
Live production engineer for Sea-Cruz since 2007, Jimmy Lathan often takes part in the group’s performances. Photo by Willie C.
#########################
Jimmy Lathan, right, has been the live sound engineer for Sea-Cruz since 2007, and gets in on some of the performances, too!
When the Rolling Stones got in hot water
with Myrtle Beach’s finest,
it was Jimmy Lathan who came to their rescue
Horry County native Jimmy Lathan doesn’t consider his job a job. It’s too much fun. He’s the live production engineer for Sea-Cruz, one of the most sought-after Carolina beach music groups in Myrtle Beach, S.C. He has a blast, even getting involved with some of the skits and routines.
“I’ve known Dino [Dino Fair, Sea-Cruz keyboard player and vocalist] for some 40 years … I met him when I was working for Burroughs & Chapin … Myrtle Beach Farms back then … and he was with the Shakers and they were playing the Pavilion at the Magic Attic, back when it was still the Pavilion Ballroom & Dance Hall.
Jimmy was the go to guy for the Pavilion for about 30 years. You needed something, you went to Jimmy. A contractor, handyman, electrician, diver, golfer, music lover and more – officially, he was general services manager at Myrtle Beach’s famous Pavilion from 1966 to 1997, and he’s got some stories to tell.
“I booked the entertainment for the Pavilion, the national acts that came in and played upstairs plus all the free acts that we put out on the beach.
“The Flying Wallendins used to perform on the beach, at 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. Their shows lasted anywhere from 12 to 20 minutes.”
Jimmy’s stories tend to remind him of other stories, which is what happened here.
“Do you know that the beach here used to be much, much deeper? Back in the fifties, Slim Mims [musician/comedian who also owned Uncle Ugly’s Record Shop in Florence, S.C.] used to emcee a country night at the Pavilion. He would fly his own plane from Nashville to Myrtle Beach and land right there on the beach … what is now the horseshoe at Main Street in North Myrtle Beach. The beach was so wide, nobody cared. Mr. Husted used to go pick him up and at the end of the night, he’d bring him back to his plane.”
According to Jimmy, Husted was originally a traveling carny. When the Pavilion first opened, he used to bring his rides for the summer and then move on to the next gig. The company wanted to keep them longer, so they bought them and Husted came on as general manager.
While Edward Burroughs was alive, Jimmy had a standing weekly golf date with him. “In the early 70s, every Wednesday at 1 p.m. – and I don’t mean 12:59 or 1:01– I mean I p.m. – Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Husted, the general manager for Myrtlewood Golf Course and I would play. Every Wednesday. It was another part of my job.”
Jimmy also coordinated all the Sun Fun activities with the Pavilion. “I loved meeting all these people … the dignitaries … the inductees. Mickey Spillane was inducted into the Sun Fun Hall of Fame in 1988 along with Alabama and the Thunderbirds. Mickey was all dressed up on the red carpet; thousands of people were wanting his autograph. An hour later, I noticed him on the beach in his shorts and a Miller shirt and not a soul knew who he was. ‘I like it this way,’ he told me. I like that guy!
“I loved the free acts, too. There were monster trucks, wrestlers. Andre the Giant used to work the Pavilion. Man, that guy was so big he could drop a silver dollar through his ring.
“The Ballroom held some 3,000 people. The dance floor was made out of South American Maple, milled to perfection, tongue in groove. It was beautiful.
“Back in the 60s, late 60s, maybe ‘66 or ‘67 or ‘68, I was running the free bands, working the side doors. There was no AC, no fan. But it was a great time.
“The music then … we didn’t call it beach music. It was Motown. I was fortunate enough to see that era of entertainment. The Drifters, the Platters, Supremes, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, the Tams – with Joe Pope, The Temptations – with David Ruffin, Sam & Dave, Little Anthony and the Imperials. In fact, when Anthony was in town for the Carolina Beach Music Awards last year, he told me he remembered me working the side door.
“You know, we didn’t realize that the music being played at the Pavilion was dictating what was being played east of Mississippi. We didn’t even know.”
“We used to have the best regional groups come through. We’d have General Johnson and Jackie Gore on the boardwalk.
You never knew who was going to stop by the Pavilion and either sit in or just hang out.
“In the 70s, there was a southern rock band I liked a lot – Eastern Seaboard. They had a banjo player. He used to play ‘Rocky Top’ for me all the time. They knew I liked it. Well, one day, they started playing it, I looked up and there’s Alabama and Charlie Daniels up on stage with Eastern Seaboard … playing Rocky Top. I just loved it.
“I met some great people. One night, in 1974, I was back in my office, and one of my staff came back and said, ‘This guy out front just wants to come in and listen to the music. So I went out front, said hello and let him through. Later on, he stopped by the office, poked his head in and said in his English accent, “I just wanted to thank you for letting me come and see your bloody pub.’
“At that point, I had to say to him, ‘I don’t know if you’re him, but you look like someone I saw in concert five years ago.’
“And he said, ‘Oh, you were at Woodstock. I’m Pete Townshend.”
It turns out Pete Townhend was into the teachings of Indian mystic and spiritual leader Meher Baba, and came to Myrtle Beach on occasion to visit the Meher Spiritual Center, a retreat which, ironically, had been established in the forties by Elizabeth Chapin Patterson, daughter of Simeon B. Chapin, one of the original developers of Myrtle Beach. (Ah, synchronicity)
Years later, in Greensboro, N.C. at a Van Halen after party, Jimmy would run into Townshend again, and this time the Brit introduced him to another buddy, Roger Daltry.
“We had the Stones at the Pavilion, too,” Jimmy tells me.
“In 1978, they were playing the Convention Center. Well, it seems that Keith Richards got in a little trouble with the local police. They wanted to put him in jail. I got involved and said, ‘Let’s not put him in jail; let’s make them do another show. So the police agreed and the Rolling Stones came down to the Pavilion and did one song: “Jumpin’ Jack Flash.”
Jimmy Lathan had a lot of other special nights at the Pavilion, too.
“Some nights were just magic. Mother’s Finest put on one of the most dazzling, fast-moving shows I’ve ever seen. In the 70s, Eastern Seaboard was one of my favorites. Then Sugar Creek came along in the 80s. What a great band.
“Harry Deal and the Galaxies used to play the Pavilion. You know he still owns a chicken farm in Taylorsville, N.C. and still has a group.
“Steve Perry from Journey used to come by. Gerry Rafferty sat in once.
“I loved the music, but it was more. “We had some pretty weird people, too: the fattest twins in the world, Billy and Bobby McGuire. Police used to have to stop traffic to give them time to cross the street.
“And there was this sword swallower. One night I hear Eastern Seaboard playing. Well, Vernon Dick, the lead singer, had met the sword swallower drinking beer and had him on stage. Too funny.
Booking entertainment for the Pavilion from 1966 to 1997, Jimmy Lathan amassed one of the most comprehensive collections of Myrtle Beach Pavilion memorabilia around!
Along the way, Jimmy has put together one of the most comprehensive Pavilion memorabilia collections around.
“I have a parchment I’m going to donate to the Horry County Museum. It’s dated 1801, signed by the governor and it’s a death warrant.
“I’ve been collecting stuff forever. I have a 1929 Horry County dog tag, a Sloppy Joe’s free bingo token, bath house tickets from 1948, posters of lots of the acts and events.”
Jimmy has amusement ride tickets at every denomination ever produced for the Pavilion rides: ten cents, which were used during the 50s; 15 cents, from the 60s; 20 cent tickets; 25 cent tickets; and the new tickets: 60 cents, 75 cents, 90 cents and the most recent one-dollar tickets.
“I also bought the last five tickets ever purchased at the Pavilion in 2006,” he said. “I gave three of them away and I’ve kept the last two… the last two tickets.
About two hours into the interview with Jimmy Lathan, it crossed my mind that he should write a book.
“Well, I am working on a book,” he says, “with Freakin’ Deacon.”
Gary “Freakin’ Deacon” Dawson is a longtime Myrtle Beach deejay. These days you can hear him on QROCK. Back then, he was in the WKCQ booth at the Pavilion.
Until they finish what is sure to be one of the most colorful, interesting books written about the Pavilion and Myrtle Beach, look for Jimmy whenever Sea-Cruz is in town and get him to tell you a couple of his stories. He’s the man!
This was originally published at http://darielb.wordpress.com. Author Dariel Bendin can be contacted on the Internet on MySpace (MySpace.com/culturejunkie); Facebook and Twitter (Twitter.com/darielb). Read Beach Newz online at MyrtleBeachAlternatives.com/beach-newz.
cutlines:
Jimmy Lathan shown with one of the posters from his comprehensive collection of Pavilion memorabilia.
Live production engineer for Sea-Cruz since 2007, Jimmy Lathan often takes part in the group’s performances. Photo by Willie C.
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Go See Jimmy!
When the Rolling Stones got in hot water with Myrtle Beach’s finest, it was Jimmy Lathan who came to their rescue
Horry County native Jimmy Lathan doesn’t consider his job a job. It’s too much fun. He’s the live production engineer for Sea-Cruz, one of the most sought-after Carolina beach music groups in Myrtle Beach, S.C. He has a blast, even getting involved with some of the skits and routines.
“I’ve known Dino [Dino Fair, Sea-Cruz keyboard player and vocalist] for some 40 years … I met him when I was working for Burroughs & Chapin … Myrtle Beach Farms back then … and he was with the Shakers and they were playing the Pavilion at the Magic Attic, back when it was still the Pavilion Ballroom & Dance Hall.
Jimmy was the go to guy for the Pavilion for about 30 years. You needed something, you went to Jimmy. A contractor, handyman, electrician, diver, golfer, music lover and more – officially, he was general services manager at Myrtle Beach’s famous Pavilion from 1966 to 1997, and he’s got some stories to tell.
“I booked the entertainment for the Pavilion, the national acts that came in and played upstairs plus all the free acts that we put out on the beach.
“The Flying Wallendins used to perform on the beach, at 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. Their shows lasted anywhere from 12 to 20 minutes.”
Jimmy’s stories tend to remind him of other stories, which is what happened here.
“Do you know that the beach here used to be much, much deeper? Back in the fifties, Slim Mims [musician/comedian who also owned Uncle Ugly’s Record Shop in Florence, S.C.] used to emcee a country night at the Pavilion. He would fly his own plane from Nashville to Myrtle Beach and land right there on the beach … what is now the horseshoe at Main Street in North Myrtle Beach. The beach was so wide, nobody cared. Mr. Husted used to go pick him up and at the end of the night, he’d bring him back to his plane.”
According to Jimmy, Husted was originally a traveling carny. When the Pavilion first opened, he used to bring his rides for the summer and then move on to the next gig. The company wanted to keep them longer, so they bought them and Husted came on as general manager.
While Edward Burroughs was alive, Jimmy had a standing weekly golf date with him. “In the early 70s, every Wednesday at 1 p.m. – and I don’t mean 12:59 or 1:01– I mean I p.m. – Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Husted, the general manager for Myrtlewood Golf Course and I would play. Every Wednesday. It was another part of my job.”
Jimmy also coordinated all the Sun Fun activities with the Pavilion. “I loved meeting all these people … the dignitaries … the inductees. Mickey Spillane was inducted into the Sun Fun Hall of Fame in 1988 along with Alabama and the Thunderbirds. Mickey was all dressed up on the red carpet; thousands of people were wanting his autograph. An hour later, I noticed him on the beach in his shorts and a Miller shirt and not a soul knew who he was. ‘I like it this way,’ he told me. I like that guy!
“I loved the free acts, too. There were monster trucks, wrestlers. Andre the Giant used to work the Pavilion. Man, that guy was so big he could drop a silver dollar through his ring.
“The Ballroom held some 3,000 people. The dance floor was made out of South American Maple, milled to perfection, tongue in groove. It was beautiful.
“Back in the 60s, late 60s, maybe ‘66 or ‘67 or ‘68, I was running the free bands, working the side doors. There was no AC, no fan. But it was a great time.
“The music then … we didn’t call it beach music. It was Motown. I was fortunate enough to see that era of entertainment. The Drifters, the Platters, Supremes, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, the Tams – with Joe Pope, The Temptations – with David Ruffin, Sam & Dave, Little Anthony and the Imperials. In fact, when Anthony was in town for the Carolina Beach Music Awards last year, he told me he remembered me working the side door.
“You know, we didn’t realize that the music being played at the Pavilion was dictating what was being played east of Mississippi. We didn’t even know.”
“We used to have the best regional groups come through. We’d have General Johnson and Jackie Gore on the boardwalk.
You never knew who was going to stop by the Pavilion and either sit in or just hang out.
“In the 70s, there was a southern rock band I liked a lot – Eastern Seaboard. They had a banjo player. He used to play ‘Rocky Top’ for me all the time. They knew I liked it. Well, one day, they started playing it, I looked up and there’s Alabama and Charlie Daniels up on stage with Eastern Seaboard … playing Rocky Top. I just loved it.
“I met some great people. One night, in 1974, I was back in my office, and one of my staff came back and said, ‘This guy out front just wants to come in and listen to the music. So I went out front, said hello and let him through. Later on, he stopped by the office, poked his head in and said in his English accent, “I just wanted to thank you for letting me come and see your bloody pub.’
“At that point, I had to say to him, ‘I don’t know if you’re him, but you look like someone I saw in concert five years ago.’
“And he said, ‘Oh, you were at Woodstock. I’m Pete Townshend.”
It turns out Pete Townhend was into the teachings of Indian mystic and spiritual leader Meher Baba, and came to Myrtle Beach on occasion to visit the Meher Spiritual Center, a retreat which, ironically, had been established in the forties by Elizabeth Chapin Patterson, daughter of Simeon B. Chapin, one of the original developers of Myrtle Beach. (Ah, synchronicity)
Years later, in Greensboro, N.C. at a Van Halen after party, Jimmy would run into Townshend again, and this time the Brit introduced him to another buddy, Roger Daltry.
“We had the Stones at the Pavilion, too,” Jimmy tells me.
“In 1978, they were playing the Convention Center. Well, it seems that Keith Richards got in a little trouble with the local police. They wanted to put him in jail. I got involved and said, ‘Let’s not put him in jail; let’s make them do another show. So the police agreed and the Rolling Stones came down to the Pavilion and did one song: “Jumpin’ Jack Flash.”
Jimmy Lathan had a lot of other special nights at the Pavilion, too.
“Some nights were just magic. Mother’s Finest put on one of the most dazzling, fast-moving shows I’ve ever seen. In the 70s, Eastern Seaboard was one of my favorites. Then Sugar Creek came along in the 80s. What a great band.
“Harry Deal and the Galaxies used to play the Pavilion. You know he still owns a chicken farm in Taylorsville, N.C. and still has a group.
“Steve Perry from Journey used to come by. Gerry Rafferty sat in once.
“I loved the music, but it was more. “We had some pretty weird people, too: the fattest twins in the world, Billy and Bobby McGuire. Police used to have to stop traffic to give them time to cross the street.
“And there was this sword swallower. One night I hear Eastern Seaboard playing. Well, Vernon Dick, the lead singer, had met the sword swallower drinking beer and had him on stage. Too funny.
Along the way, Jimmy has put together one of the most comprehensive Pavilion memorabilia collections around.
“I have a parchment I’m going to donate to the Horry County Museum. It’s dated 1801, signed by the governor and it’s a death warrant.
“I’ve been collecting stuff forever. I have a 1929 Horry County dog tag, a Sloppy Joe’s free bingo token, bath house tickets from 1948, posters of lots of the acts and events.”
Jimmy has amusement ride tickets at every denomination ever produced for the Pavilion rides: ten cents, which were used during the 50s; 15 cents, from the 60s; 20 cent tickets; 25 cent tickets; and the new tickets: 60 cents, 75 cents, 90 cents and the most recent one-dollar tickets.
“I also bought the last five tickets ever purchased at the Pavilion in 2006,” he said. “I gave three of them away and I’ve kept the last two… the last two tickets.
About two hours into the interview with Jimmy Lathan, it crossed my mind that he should write a book.
“Well, I am working on a book,” he says, “with Freakin’ Deacon.”
Gary “Freakin’ Deacon” Dawson is a longtime Myrtle Beach deejay. These days you can hear him on QROCK. Back then, he was in the WKCQ booth at the Pavilion.
Until they finish what is sure to be one of the most colorful, interesting books written about the Pavilion and Myrtle Beach, look for Jimmy whenever Sea-Cruz is in town and get him to tell you a couple of his stories. He’s the man!
This will also post to my Beach Newz column in Alternatives for the August 27, 2009 issue
Jonas Brothers’ took over Radio Disney today, August 25. It’s from Backstage on their tour in Nashville, TN. The boys talk Camp Rock 2, tour, etc! The second video is under the jump, be aware though the Jonas Brothers only talk for the first couple of minutes, the second video is completely Honor Society!
more about “We’re Taking Over One City At a Time“, posted with vodpod
Tell us a bit about your band, Raygun.
Raygun is made up of me, Ray, the lead, along with guitarist The Adj, bassist Ben and drummer Sam. Adj and I have been a band of sorts for six years now since we were studying in London College of Music. Ben and Sam joined in later and the chemistry was right. Then, as everyone says, the rest is history.
What kind of music of you guys play?
We play a lot of 70s rock. Our influences are those such as David Bowie, T-Rex, Mick Jagger and Iggy Pop, so our music will mostly be inspired by those legends that were big in the mid-70s.
Would you guys consider your music Glam Rock then?
Yes, of course. We definitely would like to bring back all the glamour that was back in the 70s with our eccentric outfits and energetic music.
What separates your from the other bands emerging as of lately?
Well, we are a band who likes to have a laugh. We try not to take things too seriously. There are quite a few bands out there that are quite self-conscious when they go on stage, and we try not to submit to the same path as theirs. We strive to be entertaining and alive when it comes to performing live.
How’s Malaysia treating you guys so far?
Very good! The people have been pretty nice so far. We have never been to Malaysia before and we are liking what we see so far. And of course, the food is just gastronomic!
What was your initial reaction when MTV approached you to perform for MTV World Stage?
We were quite shocked, to be honest. I mean, we have toured with Pink before this, but that was it. We were surprised anyone would even take notice of us beyond that, let alone in Malaysia. But obviously, we jumped at the chance the second we were asked to perform at MTV World Stage.
What can the fans expect from you at the MTV World Stage concert?
Fans can definitely expect Raygun’s set to be an energetic one. There will be a lot of sweating going on, so I hope the fans brought spare change of clothes. Haha.
What do you expect from the fans in return?
Honestly, we are a little nervous performing tonight. This is our first time performing in Asia, and also Malaysia, so we’re not sure how the fans are going to react to our music. We do hope the crowd will not be too reserved, and will let loose and have fun with the music.
Tell us more about your hit single Just Because.
Just Because is a song about indulgence. Like how the chorus goes: “Just because you can, it doesn’t mean you should” – it is all about thinking first of your actions before you do them. A lot of people complain that it’s a song about drugs, but I beg to differ; it’s more of an anti-drug song, if you ask me. Just because you have the means to do all the wrong things in life, it does not mean you should.
Are you guys working on a new album in the meantime?
Yeah, we are in the works on putting a debut album together. Hopefully, it will be ready by the end of the year. It is going to be up tempo, like all the songs you can hear from our MySpace page. Like what The Adj here would say: it’s going to be the next Nevermind and Sergeant Pepper. Haha.
When I read Raygun’s bio release for MTV World Stage, my first thought was, “Sure or not?” It sounded like a very exaggerating piece with heightened flowery and too big promises for a band that has just started off.
They were described as “lead vox and sonic experimentation”, “war guitar and audio discovery” and “pace maker and heartbreaker”. And apparently they “summon up the razzle of New Wave and the dazzle of the Scissor Sisters’ disco, the filthiness of INXS, as well as the rock nous of a band long ready to start a revolution”, as they vow to “set a new blueprint for pop rock”, because they think other bands “don’t try hard enough to pump our blood, or move our feet”.
It was a pretty release set to impress, but it was very hard to buy it for me. I mean, words are just words, right?
In person, Ray Gun, The Adj, Sam Embery and Ben Lyonsmyth were generally nice fellows. Ray was pretty much the lead everyone expected, doing most of the talking and all. The Adj answered too, but eventually, you would catch on that they did not really apply unless for a laugh. Ben and Sam were pretty much just sitting there being pretty. Heh.
Overall, they were a nice band to interview, though it may probably be dued to the fact that they are new and in a foreign country, so they did not want to offend.
Tell us a bit about your band, Raygun.
Raygun is made up of me, Ray, the lead, along with guitarist The Adj, bassist Ben and drummer Sam. Adj and I have been a band of sorts for six years now since we were studying in London College of Music. Ben and Sam joined in later and the chemistry was right. Then, as everyone says, the rest is history.
What kind of music of you guys play? We play a lot of 70s rock. Our influences are those such as David Bowie, T-Rex, Mick Jagger and Iggy Pop, so our music will mostly be inspired by those legends that were big in the mid-70s.
Would you guys consider your music Glam Rock then? Yes, of course. We definitely would like to bring back all the glamour that was back in the 70s with our eccentric outfits and energetic music.
What separates your from the other bands emerging as of lately? Well, we are a band who likes to have a laugh. We try not to take things too seriously. There are quite a few bands out there that are quite self-conscious when they go on stage, and we try not to submit to the same path as theirs. We strive to be entertaining and alive when it comes to performing live.
How’s Malaysia treating you guys so far? Very good! The people have been pretty nice so far. We have never been to Malaysia before and we are liking what we see so far. And of course, the food is just gastronomic!
What was your initial reaction when MTV approached you to perform for MTV World Stage? We were quite shocked, to be honest. I mean, we have toured with Pink before this, but that was it. We were surprised anyone would even take notice of us beyond that, let alone in Malaysia. But obviously, we jumped at the chance the second we were asked to perform at MTV World Stage.
What can the fans expect from you at the MTV World Stage concert? Fans can definitely expect Raygun’s set to be an energetic one. There will be a lot of sweating going on, so I hope the fans brought spare change of clothes. Haha.
What do you expect from the fans in return? Honestly, we are a little nervous performing tonight. This is our first time performing in Asia, and also Malaysia, so we’re not sure how the fans are going to react to our music. We do hope the crowd will not be too reserved, and will let loose and have fun with the music.
Tell us more about your hit single Just Because. Just Because is a song about indulgence. Like how the chorus goes: “Just because you can, it doesn’t mean you should” – it is all about thinking first of your actions before you do them. A lot of people complain that it’s a song about drugs, but I beg to differ; it’s more of an anti-drug song, if you ask me. Just because you have the means to do all the wrong things in life, it does not mean you should.
Are you guys working on a new album in the meantime? Yeah, we are in the works on putting a debut album together. Hopefully, it will be ready by the end of the year. It is going to be up tempo, like all the songs you can hear from our MySpace page. Like what The Adj here would say: it’s going to be the next Nevermind and Sergeant Pepper. Haha.
Here is Just Because.
The new blueprint of pop rock? You be the judge.
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Also check out: MTV World Stage : Interview with Stank MTV World Stage “Live in Malaysia” MTV World Stage : Backstage
Major Nelson’s weekly showgram is now available for download.
Show number : 329:
Topics discussed, co-hosts, intervies and much more :
Co-host : e (Xbox LIVE ) (Twitter)
Interview: Adam Askew, DiRT 2 (23:43 – 32:13)
Interview: Sefton Hill, Batman: Arkham Asylum (32:13 – 44:01)
Interview: Donald Mustart, Shadow Complex (44:02 – 55:43)
Special Guest: Stephen Toulouse stops by to talk about Xbox LIVE Policy
Name The Game
Xbox 101
And a little more
Grab it now at :
[iTunes] Itunes podcast [MP3] <– Download the show
